BackedCoin vs UnbackedCoin

Imagine there is competition between two currencies. The two currencies are identical in every respect, except one is backed by assets and the other isn't. Which one would win the competition to become the preferred medium of exchange?

I think the one that is backed by assets would win. For two reasons:

1. The issuer of the backed coin could use those assets to help stabilise the value of the coins in response to fluctuations in demand. If demand falls, the issuer could use the assets to buy back some of the coins in circulation. If demand rises, the issuer could sell more coins in exchange for more assets. The issuer can make the supply curve of the coins more elastic, so that fluctuations in demand cause smaller fluctuations in price. Other things equal, people prefer a safer asset to a less safe asset.

2. The issuer of the backed coin could use the returns on those assets to pay interest on the coins. Or to buy back coins so the owners of the coins would see capital gains. Other things equal, people prefer an asset that pays a higher rate of return to one that pays a lower rate of return.

Other things equal, we would therefore expect to see competition between currencies lead to issuers of those currencies having assets backing those currencies, and paying out all the returns from those assets (minus administrative costs) to those who own those currencies. Free entry and competition drives down the profits from issuing currency to zero. Only currencies with 100% backing would survive.

But are other things equal?

There could be network externalities and a first mover advantage. Like Microsoft, VHS vs BetaMax, and the English language. If UnbackedCoin got on the market first, and if everyone wants to use the same coins as everyone else, and translation costs are high enough, it could survive against competition from BackedCoin. Customers cannot coordinate their simultaneous switch from UnbackedCoin to BackedCoin.

One more post in response to Brad Delong's email query and arguments about competition for Bitcoin.

I recommend Tyler Cowen's post.

[Update: I think JP Koning got there first.]

(Mike Sproul deserves all the blame for making me think this way.)

95 comments

  1. Robert's avatar

    Wouldn’t the one NOT backed by assets win? Less likely to be used as a store of value and therefore more likely to be exchanged for other goods….. Is this not the lesson of bimetallism? The bad drives out the good.

  2. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Robert: Gresham’s Law works if the two currencies have fixed exchange rates. Bimetallism was a fixed exchange rate between gold coins and silver coins. These two currencies would have flexible exchange rates.

  3. JP Koning's avatar

    Backed vs unbacked: this is exactly why I keep saying that Ripple (or something like it) is going to be the end of Bitcoin:
    http://jpkoning.blogspot.ca/2013/03/selling-out-of-bitcoin-ledger.html

  4. Roger Sparks's avatar

    I would think the unbacked currency would win the circulation battle. The reasons are three:
    1. If an owner has both backed and unbacked currency, he would trade the unbacked first. This reduces his risk of loss of value.
    2. More of the unbacked currency will be produced. This happens because the issuer does not need to limit production to available real assets; production can follow political sale of desired, good, projects.
    3. A long term holder-with-choices would place assets into the backed currency. That action would withdraw the backed currency, making it more a reserve currency, not a trading currency.
    Only when a currency becomes unacceptably weak, does it receive reduced usage. Actual rejection must occur, not simply preferred unloading.

  5. Nick Rowe's avatar

    JP: I have updated the post, to link to yours.

  6. Majromax's avatar

    Free entry and competition drives down the profits from issuing currency to zero. Only currencies with 100% backing would survive.
    Isn’t this what we see in traditional, “meat-space” alternative currencies such as gift cards or subway tokens?
    The unbacked value of a currency comes from its transactional utility. That would come from both the chartalist notion of “you have to pay taxes” and the currency’s use as a stable store of value (to allow for nominal-terms finances). The latter acts as the means by which currency failures (hyperinflation or unavailable supply) result in adoption of a foreign currency in practical circulation.
    That source of “unbacked” value would allow a currency issuer to derive durable profits from seniorage: a cow is less valuable than a certificate that can be exchanged for a cow on demand, pays milk, and can be used to pay taxes.
    Limiting the currency issuer’s profits is the transactional value from the secondary market. A certificate that pays taxes might be less worthwhile than a certificate that pays for everything but taxes, so it’s in the currency issuer’s interest to have the currency adopted widely. (That is, under reasonable circumstances the transactional value of a currency slopes upward with velocity). In a coinage-dominated environment, currency is something close to a natural monopoly: people and businesses only have the time and resources to deal with a select few independent currencies.
    Bitcoin is certainly a break from this. I think that the comment that Krugman makes is spot on: “I try to get them to explain to me why BitCoin is a reliable store of value, they always seem to come back with explanations about how it’s a terrific medium of exchange.”
    In that regard, Bitcoin is technically cool but I don’t think it’s a long-term medium of exchange. Its designer and community confuses certainty of quantity with certainty of value, so the reasoning on why Bitcoin in particular has value is circular. (It has value because it’s limited, so its value can never go down (much!))

  7. Ralph Musgrave's avatar

    When some Bitcoin type operation manages to stabilise the value of its coins relative to the national currency, the operation becomes indistinguishable from a commercial bank.
    That is, coins issued by bank X and with “bank X” imprinted on the coins are no different to notes issued by bank X, which in turn are no different to loans extended by bank X: they are all liabilities of the bank. And in all three cases the bank will nearly always want collateral in exchange for lending out any of the above three. So to that extent, all three are backed by real assets.
    The existence of some other asset (e.g. lots of gold in the bank’s vault) doesn’t add much: i.e. the bank will still want collateral from those wanting coins / notes / loans. Indeed, as Robert above suggests, that gold backing would be a COST, which might make bank X uncompetitive. And if the bank has interest yielding assets (e.g. property instead of gold) that’s a separate business surely? It has nothing to do with, and isn’t a necessary part of the coin / note / loan issuing business.

  8. NoniMausa's avatar
    NoniMausa · · Reply

    You could argue that US currency is backed by their military. Ultimately, all other resources are vulnerable to theft, invasion, redefinition under law, obsolescence, and all the other hazards of the world, but a whompin’ big military can offset many of those hazards, and can additionally assist in redefining other countries laws, tweaking their behaviour with mini-invasions, supporting their adversaries, and basically acting as the biggest thumb on the biggest scales in the world.
    People wonder why the US wastes trillions on a military an order of magnitude bigger than anyone else’s. That’s why.
    Noni

  9. Mike Sproul's avatar

    Nick:
    Your first-mover advantage argument is plausible, but then we look around at modern-day dollars, pounds, euros, yen, etc, and find that they are listed as liabilities of the central banks that issued them, that those central banks hold assets against them, that no dollar is ever issued without getting a dollar’s worth of assets in exchange, and so on. It sure looks like backed currencies win.
    A couple of weeks ago I even heard some Federal Reserve officials publicly discouraging people from using bitcoin. They said it is safer to use a BACKED CURRENCY LIKE THE DOLLAR (!!)

  10. Nick Rowe's avatar

    MajroMax: “In that regard, Bitcoin is technically cool but I don’t think it’s a long-term medium of exchange.”
    I disagree. If there were no threat from competition, or from governments banning it, I think it could survive fine, despite its fluctuating value (and those fluctuations would diminish a bit over time as people learn more about the future demand to use Bitcoin). Because some people want to use a cryptocurrency. The danger is from competition from better backed competitors.
    Ralph: “When some Bitcoin type operation manages to stabilise the value of its coins relative to the national currency, the operation becomes indistinguishable from a commercial bank.”
    Bingo!
    A commercial bank is like a central bank that fixes its exchange rate against another central bank.
    But you lost me on the rest. A commercial bank that pays less interest and/or has higher fees and/or worse service than competing banks will lose the competition for deposits. Unless they use the returns on their assets to do those things, they will lose out in competition, because their customers will switch.
    Noni: I don’t get that. Zimbabwe had a (relatively) strong military, but that didn’t help the Zim dollar.

  11. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Mike: the backing of the Bank of Canada helps to make the supply curve elastic, to prevent the Lonnie fluctuating in value. But holders of Loonie currency don’t see the interest on those assets.

  12. Ian Lippert's avatar
    Ian Lippert · · Reply

    JPK,
    Your post that Rowe linked to states
    “But that’s not the sort of ledger space I’m talking about. What happens when we bring in bitcoin-quality ledger space that has an anchor? I’m talking stable-value crypto-currency, not the sort that dangles and has a null value. These new alternatives will copy the best aspects of bitcoin, specifically its fast, efficient and safe record-keeping abilities. But rather than just providing blank tokens, they’ll twin the ledger with some intrinsically valuable item.”
    Why does a currency need to be backed by an object of value and why does that linking prevent fluctuation in demand for the currency?
    Its like when people claim we should use gold over bitcoin because gold has “intrinsic” value due to its uses in certain production processes. This doesnt give gold intrinsic value, the value of gold is determined by the sum total of demand for the commodity regardless where that demand comes from.
    Gold is currently about $1200/ounce, if there was no demand for Gold as a currency/speculative commodity what portion of the price would be due to the demand for “real” uses of gold? If 10% of gold is purchased for industrial use then what stops your fluctuation argument from applying to gold when it only a small portion is used for “real” projects.
    You dismiss the ledger and claim it points to nothing, but when it is traded against real goods that ledger becomes a full account of the trade ratios between goods without any interference from non-trade demand or the wishes of those who provide a monopolized currency. That’s the value of bitcoin, it removes the barriers that are created by those who are attempting to control the intertemporal trade in goods to fund their economic stimulation schemes.

  13. Ed's avatar

    I’m having trouble thinking through all of this.
    The classic example is cigarettes in prison. Would you say that cigarettes are “backed” by the number of men that actually smoke them? And that would provide a floor on their value?
    Now suppose cigarettes have a competitor in baseball cards. There’s a few guys in prison that collect the cards for sentimental reasons – but fewer than the number of guys that smoke. The floor for baseball cards is lower. But there are advantages to cards as medium of exchange (just assume that’s the case). For example, maybe they’re easier to hide when there’s a shakedown by the guards.
    In any case, does the higher floor on cigarettes necessitate that it wins out as a medium of exchange? Is this example analogous to your note above?

  14. Mike Sproul's avatar

    Nick:
    “holders of Loonie currency don’t see the interest on those assets.”
    Maybe they do. It’s just that the interest is burned up by costs. Assume costlessly-issued bonds pay 3% per year. Then along comes another bond, called the Loonie, that has printing/handling costs of 5% per year. The loonie earns a 3% yield just like other bonds, but the 3% yield is burned up by the 5% costs, leaving the loonie yielding -2% per year. The loonie has a high enough convenience yield (aka liquidity yield) that people are willing to hold it despite its low net yield.
    Of course, a checkable loonie would have lower printing/handling costs, and would have a higher yield. Central banks are just now discovering this as they start paying interest on reserves.

  15. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Ed: in the case of cigarettes, there is a demand curve for cigarettes from smokers, and a demand curve for those who want to use them as currency. Smokers have a flow demand curve, and currency holders a stock demand curve. If the demand for cigs as currency drops, the price drops, smokers smoke more, so the stock supply falls over time, preventing the price falling as much.
    So the cigarette case is very much like a backed currency with an elastic supply curve, but a bit more complicated because of stocks and flows.

  16. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Gold is like cigarets too, except the flow supply from new mining is very small, so fluctuations in monetary demand cause big fluctuations in price for a long time.
    It’s all in elasticity of demand and supply, and stocks vs flows. A currency that is 100% backed can have a perfectly elastic supply that adjusts the stock very quickly.

  17. Majromax's avatar

    @Mike Sproul:

    Your first-mover advantage argument is plausible, but then we look around at modern-day dollars, pounds, euros, yen, etc, and find that they are listed as liabilities of the central banks that issued them, that those central banks hold assets against them, that no dollar is ever issued without getting a dollar’s worth of assets in exchange, and so on. It sure looks like backed currencies win.
    That doesn’t work, because “a dollar purchases a dollar’s worth of assets” is meaninglessly true. Backing in this regard would involve some kind of fixed terms of exchange, such as the old gold standard. (You can derive an implied backing for currency by looking at the central bank’s balance sheet, but that’s descriptive rather than prescriptive.)
    @Ian Lippert
    Why does a currency need to be backed by an object of value and why does that linking prevent fluctuation in demand for the currency?
    Because that backing ensures scarcity, and it acts as a put option on value.
    As proponents are quick to point out, Bitcoin proper does have scarcity in that its issuance is technically limited. However, the criticisms from the linked articles also apply; there’s nothing preventing me from cloning Bitcoin into Bitcoin2, keeping everything technically the same but with a totally new blockchain. In that regard, cryptocurrencies are of unlimited issue.
    That means that the only thing giving Bitcoin value over Bitcoin2 is the network effect — there’s no extrinsic reason I should choose Bitcoin over any particular alternative. But when the currency’s value is governed solely by sentiment, that’s not stable.
    On the other hand, backing by a sufficiently credible entity does give a currency (potentially small, but nonzero) intrinsic value; that limits downside risk and makes a particular currency a much more attractive option. Imagine if the US government decided to accept payment of taxes in Dogecoin or one of the other joking alternatives — that would instantly become a much more credible instrument than all of the other, nonprivileged currencies.
    Its like when people claim we should use gold over bitcoin because gold has “intrinsic” value due to its uses in certain production processes. This doesnt give gold intrinsic value, the value of gold is determined by the sum total of demand for the commodity regardless where that demand comes from.
    You’re confusing “value,” which includes all forms of demand, with “intrinsic value,” which excludes the presumed re-selling of gold. The intrinsic value of gold comes from all the things people want to do with it that don’t involve giving it (in unmodified form) to other people — industrial and ornamental uses.
    Intrinsic value acts as a rough floor on total value, in that if the net value ever dropped below the intrinsic value then it would be profitable to buy the commodity solely to “do stuff” with it.
    @Nick Rowe:
    I disagree. If there were no threat from competition, or from governments banning it, I think it could survive fine, despite its fluctuating value (and those fluctuations would diminish a bit over time as people learn more about the future demand to use Bitcoin). Because some people want to use a cryptocurrency. The danger is from competition from better backed competitors.
    I think I was a bit unclear about what I meant. Bitcoin is totally fine as a medium of exchange for short-term holding periods, but even in the most optimistic of cases I don’t see it as a stable medium of exchange for long-term holding periods. I can write and purchase nominally-denominated instruments in conventional currencies because there’s widespread faith about the value of cash 6 months->30 years down the road (with increasing vagueness); there’s no such faith about even the order of magnitude of Bitcoin’s value 12 months hence.
    That means that even if I expect to be able to complete a purchase->exchange for goods transaction in Bitcoin a year from now, I don’t have a meaningful incentive to do the “purchase” portion of the exchange now. Even a presumed modest discount won’t work for me, because there’s no reasonably risk-free instrument to invest in. (Fiat, of course, gets by with well-managed inflation expectations, and for even more risk-averse holders there’s government-backed inflation-protected securities.)
    Bitcoin could potentially replace cash in my wallet, but without credible backing it can’t replace the balance of my chequing account.

  18. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Mike: “Maybe they do. It’s just that the interest is burned up by costs.”
    If that were the case, then, OK, it is equivalent to the owners of Loonies getting the interest, in kind.
    But, as a matter of fact, it isn’t. Costs are relatively small. Most of the interest gets paid to the government.

  19. Mike Sproul's avatar

    Majromax: If a dollar is pegged to 1 oz or 1 CPI basket, then that provides an anchor, and backing a dollar with a dollar is no longer meaningless.
    Nick: Costs are pretty hard to judge. I think printing alone burns up 1% per year. Then there’s vault storage at maybe another 1% per year, then the cost of all those armored cars, the cost of tellers counting out bills, the cost of chasing counterfeiters, etc. Nineteenth-century note-issuing bankers used to say that paper notes weren’t profitable, but were just a good form of advertising.

  20. Min's avatar

    “Imagine there is competition between two currencies. The two currencies are identical in every respect, except one is backed by assets and the other isn’t. Which one would win the competition to become the preferred medium of exchange?
    “I think the one that is backed by assets would win.”
    Is there enough information to tell? The mandats of the French Revolution were backed by land, and quickly flopped. OTOH, the currency of the Pennsylvania colony was also backed by land, and was a success.
    You did have Greenbacks vs. gold backed US Dollars during the Civil War. The Greenbacks dropped in value by about 1/3, but eventually recovered parity. {shrug}
    As for Bitcoin, two analogies spring to mind: wampum and US Colonials. Wampum was a success, Colonials flopped.

  21. Min's avatar

    Correction: Colonials were not US currency. The US did not exist yet.

  22. Majromax's avatar

    If a dollar is pegged to 1 oz or 1 CPI basket, then that provides an anchor, and backing a dollar with a dollar is no longer meaningless.
    Those two things aren’t the same; the definition of 1oz is fixed but the definition of $1-CPI-basket depends on the price level. Having a meaningful backing would require the central bank to credibly say that “tomorrow, I will exchange $1 for x% of a standard basket.” That’s not what happens now.
    Think about it from the perspective of the goods-holder. Under the convertible gold standard, I could “always” exchange 1oz for 35 US$. However, under the current system, I can’t make such an exchange — excepting mortgage-backed securities the central bank doesn’t deal in real goods. I can have faith that through appropriate actions the central bank will keep the price level controlled within certain rough limits, but that’s qualitatively different than a precise (and known in advance) peg. That faith can break down in exceptional circumstances, of course.
    Bitcoin, as it currently stands, lacks neither fixed nor “faithful” backing. The quantity of the bitcoin supply is known in advance, but that does not necessarily reflect upon the exchange of bitcoins for real goods and services. There’s no large, credible entity willing to stand behind a value-peg, nor is there a central bank policy regime willing and capable of controlling supply to target (fixed or relative) price levels.

  23. Ian Lippert's avatar
    Ian Lippert · · Reply

    Majormax,
    “That means that the only thing giving Bitcoin value over Bitcoin2 is the network effect — there’s no extrinsic reason I should choose Bitcoin over any particular alternative. But when the currency’s value is governed solely by sentiment, that’s not stable.
    On the other hand, backing by a sufficiently credible entity does give a currency (potentially small, but nonzero) intrinsic value”
    Where do governments get their credibility from? The network effects that have developed over hundreds of years from the vast financial infrastructure that has been built up around the state. If bitcoin gains this level of credibility then there is no reason to believe bitcoin can’t be a sufficiently credible monetary institution, its just a matter of time for the bitcoin infrastructure to be put into place.
    Intrinsic value (thanks for clearing up the definitions) might provide a lower floor but if that floor is really low (as in the case of gold) then the same criticisms apply to currency with intrinsic value. Fiat currency has intrinsic value only in so far as the monetary authority correctly manages it. The whole point of moving to bitcoin is that savers dont want to ride the QE inflation train and now potentially have an easily accessible currency to hold their savings.
    I know the NGDPers like Nick dont want that to happen because they believe that certain points in history require the sacrifice of savers for the greater good of the economy but the fact is that in the face of massive US QE programs savers are going to perform that experiment regardless of what the monetarist economists want.
    If the NGDPers are wrong then a massive shift to bitcoin can easily shift to bitcoin the credibility that the central monetary authorities have lost.

  24. Ian Lippert's avatar
    Ian Lippert · · Reply

    Edit: “no reason to believe bitcoin CAN’T be a sufficiently credible monetary institution”
    (is there an edit function I dont know about?)
    [I edited it for you NR.]

  25. Frank Restly's avatar
    Frank Restly · · Reply

    Ian,
    “Where do governments get their credibility from?”
    The system of laws that they create and govern by. A market system without a legal system will not get you very far and lawyers don’t work for free.

  26. Mike Sproul's avatar

    Min:
    “The mandats of the French Revolution were backed by land, and quickly flopped. OTOH, the currency of the Pennsylvania colony was also backed by land, and was a success.”
    A dollar backed by 1 oz worth of land will be worth 1 oz, and a dollar backed by 0.2 oz will be worth 0.2 oz. The assignats, and later the mandats, were initially well-backed by land, but as the land was sold off, and paper money was printed and spent like crazy, there was less land per unit of currency, so the currency lost value. Pennsylvania, on the other hand, held enough assets to adequately cover the money it issued, so the money held its value.
    “Colonials flopped” You probably mean Continentals, which flopped because their quantity outran the assets (i.e., taxes receivable) backing them.
    Majromax:
    The CPI basket is defined by physical amounts of key commodities, so pegging to it is tantamount to pegging to 1 oz.

  27. Squarely Rooted's avatar

    I’m going to by my usual navel-gazing self and dig into the two key words here:
    “backed” by “assets”
    second one first:
    “Asset:” So what is an asset? Traditionally, its been rare metals, because that’s what technologically made sense for pre-industrial societies. But couldn’t assets be lots of thing? The United States owns 635 million acres of land; could you have a land-backed currency where every dollar is worth 100 square feet of land? What if the currency was backed by shares in a holding company that owned corporations that issue mortgages or make cars (to pick two totally random examples)? Or what if all patents and copyrights, instead of reverting to the public, reverted to the government, which licensed them for free but retained the right to alienate them and then used them to back the currency? What if a bunch of folks with guns and tanks and maybe even thermonuclear weapons, as well as large, unpleasant, remote buildings in which many people were forced to stay for a very long time, told everyone that unless they used the currency those folks liked that those folks would use those guns or put them into those large, unpleasant, remote buildings? Is “avoidance of violence or loss of freedom” an “asset?”
    “Backed:” this is all about credibility, no? If you said that every currency unit could be theoretically redeemed for a gram-and-a-half of gold, but you issued lots and lots of currency and didn’t really have very much gold, is your currency “backed?” What if you really did have all the gold, but nobody believed that if push came to shove you’d actually redeem all that paper for delicious, delicious gold? Is your currency “backed?” What if you had all the gold and people believed you’d redeem all the paper for all the gold but somebody else in the country next door was trying the same scheme but nobody believe HE’D redeem the paper for gold so suddenly all the gold starts getting sucked out? What if that could happen at any moment?
    I guess where I’m going is, if the government has a whole lot of guns, and they can credibly threaten to use them on people if they don’t use the government’s currency, then that currency is just as “backed” by an “asset” as any other.

  28. Majromax's avatar

    Where do governments get their credibility from?
    At a basic level, the power to enact laws and collect taxes. Beyond that, they develop and justify reputations as competent managers, so that their claims about future outcomes are respected.
    Bitcoin has none of those effects going for it. Bitcoins are not backed by tangible (convertible) assets beyond the ability to say “I provably own some bitcoin,” and that “coolness factor” will go down as novelty wears off. Likewise, Bitcoins have no governing authority backing their use as a matter of law (nor has a large, credible company stepped in to use it to denominate its own offerings). The supply of bitcoins are credibly controlled, but that has no independent link to the value of bitcoins.
    In the meantime, all of that “bitcoin infrastructure” — while potentially extremely useful for bitcoin transactions — can be easily switched to any other similar currency, including a clone of bitcoin. The technical adoption of bitcoin transactions reduces, rather than increases, barriers to entry for other digital currencies. (This is distinct from cash: if I invest in machines and training to spot legitimate $100 bills, for example, it doesn’t help me to accept €100 bills.)
    Fiat currency has intrinsic value only in so far as the monetary authority correctly manages it. The whole point of moving to bitcoin is that savers dont want to ride the QE inflation train and now potentially have an easily accessible currency to hold their savings.
    I’d be more inclined to believe your point here if bitcoin was actually effective as an instrument of savings. It isn’t; over the past year alone the currency has suffered from several 50% peak to trough drops. Regardless of your opinions on the long-term value of bitcoins, this makes it a lousy instrument for currency-type savings: I wouldn’t want to put the cash for next week’s groceries in bitcoin.
    I know the NGDPers like Nick dont want that to happen because they believe that certain points in history require the sacrifice of savers for the greater good of the economy but the fact is that in the face of massive US QE programs savers are going to perform that experiment regardless of what the monetarist economists want.
    Without putting words into Nick’s mouth, “savers” are indistinguishable from “creditors.” Without putting words into your mouth, it seems an inherent contradiction of the entire bitcoin community is that it is highly skeptical of the creditors of the modern economy (namely financial institutions) while being highly protective of their own financial assets.
    If the NGDPers are wrong then a massive shift to bitcoin can easily shift to bitcoin the credibility that the central monetary authorities have lost.
    That will work if and only if monetary policy can be reduced to a simple formula regarding the quantity of base money, in the absence of trading costs. The lessons of the last eighty or so years of economics suggest that it really isn’t that simple.

  29. Majromax's avatar

    I had a response to Ian posted, but I think it got spam-trapped, possibly due to a link to an externally-hosted bitcoin value chart. I’d much appreciate it if that spam-trapping could be looked into.
    [Summary in lieu: bitcoin has no natural monopoly because the infrastructure can be redirected to other cryptocurrencies, it doesn’t work -now- as a means of savings because it’s suffered several large drops in value in the past year, and bitcoin can only be monetarily credible if and only if monetary policy can be reduced to a simple equation on quantity of money.]
    @Mike:

    The CPI basket is defined by physical amounts of key commodities, so pegging to it is tantamount to pegging to 1 oz.
    I think we might be starting to talk past each other. The central bank could peg to a CPI basket in just that manner, but it doesn’t; it only acts through transactions on largely nominal-terms financial instruments. The “CPI backing” is an outcome, not a constraint of that system, and it only holds insofar as the central bank’s actions can actually affect the CPI.
    This is also in large part why the central bank doesn’t pay much attention to “true” CPI in favour of “core” CPI; monetary policy has even less impact on volatile food and energy prices, even though people very much care about those.
    The indirect transmission is also the mechanism by which money can fail, either through a zero lower bound (arguably in play now) or through hyperinflation.
    @Squarely:
    I guess where I’m going is, if the government has a whole lot of guns, and they can credibly threaten to use them on people if they don’t use the government’s currency, then that currency is just as “backed” by an “asset” as any other.
    But that’s not usually what happens; the private use of alternate currencies is mostly legal. The government only uses its powers to enforce the use of the national currency in dealings with itself, mostly via taxes. In fact, that increased freedom is a product of a more-unbacked currency, as capital controls are often necessary to defend fixed exchange rates (and equivalently real-goods convertibility).

  30. Ian Lippert's avatar
    Ian Lippert · · Reply

    Majromax,
    “[Summary in lieu: bitcoin has no natural monopoly because the infrastructure can be redirected to other cryptocurrencies, it doesn’t work -now- as a means of savings because it’s suffered several large drops in value in the past year, and bitcoin can only be monetarily credible if and only if monetary policy can be reduced to a simple equation on quantity of money.]”
    Several large drops…that occurred after several large increases. No one is saying the bitcoin of today is the optimal cryptocurrency. Its highly volatile, there are many other competitors, etc. But where was the internet 15 years ago? Completely indistinguishable from what we have today. Once it becomes less volatile it could easily become a vehicle for savings.
    Frank,
    “The system of laws that they create and govern by. A market system without a legal system will not get you very far and lawyers don’t work for free.”
    Where do those laws gain credibility? From the credibility of the government that enforces them, which comes from the credibility that citizens have in their governing institutions. Have you guys never heard of civil war? Citizens can lose faith in their governments, governments are backed by nothing other than faith in the governing body. If faith based institutions can gain credibility after developing for hundreds of years there is no reason why bitcoin cant either, especially considering its non-physical form which allows for people from all over the world to support it essentially cost free.

  31. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Majromax and Roger Sparks: I found your comments in spam.

  32. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Ian Lippert: “Where do governments get their credibility from? The network effects that have developed over hundreds of years from the vast financial infrastructure that has been built up around the state.”
    Gotta say I loved that bit.

  33. Majromax's avatar

    Several large drops…that occurred after several large increases. No one is saying the bitcoin of today is the optimal cryptocurrency. Its highly volatile, there are many other competitors, etc. But where was the internet 15 years ago? Completely indistinguishable from what we have today. Once it becomes less volatile it could easily become a vehicle for savings.
    The large increases are just as bad from a currency point of view. What incentive would I have to take out a bitcoin-denominated overnight loan if I might need substantially and unpredictably more stuff to pay it off in a day?
    If bitcoin is totally unsuitable for cash-type savings today but might be in the future, then how does it get there from here? An increasing profile has not yet given the currency price-stability, nor would I expect it to without the entry of a suitably large and credible market-maker willing to enforce a guarantee — a situation analogous to the “BackedCoin” proposed in this post.
    I think you’re also wrong about “no one is saying the bitcoin of today is the optimal cryptocurrency” — that’s implicitly stated by anybody holding a long position. If bitcoin isn’t the optimal cryptocurrency, then its long term value is $0 (plus a curiosity premium, I suppose) as everybody trades in OptimalCoin instead.
    The network effects of bitcoin help, but they’re mostly ephemeral. Technical success can be replicated at a keypress, and for the most part bitcoin’s transactional utility is contingent on its convertibility to other currencies. (To put it another way, I don’t think that bitcoin-denominated prices have ever deviated much from purchasing power parity.)
    If faith based institutions can gain credibility after developing for hundreds of years there is no reason why bitcoin cant either, especially considering its non-physical form which allows for people from all over the world to support it essentially cost free.
    Provided, of course, the conveniences of industrial life are entirely maintained without interruption in this scenario when existing governmental institutions lose all currency-issuing credibility. If the revolution will not be webcast (so to speak), then there’s no ability to spend or verify those bitcoins.

  34. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Majromax: ” Its designer and community confuses certainty of quantity with certainty of value, so the reasoning on why Bitcoin in particular has value is circular. (It has value because it’s limited, so its value can never go down (much!))”
    With any intrinsically worthless medium of exchange there are always two equilibria:
    1. if its price is positive, it may be demanded as a medium of exchange, and at some price demand = supply (as long as supply is limited).
    2. if its price is zero, it can’t be used as a medium of exchange, so demand is zero, so it’s a free good.

  35. Mike Sproul's avatar

    Squarely rooted:
    I find it best to think of backing this way: The tax man will demand 5 oz of silver from you every year. If you don’t pay you’ll go to jail. But the government just built a road, and it paid the contractors with 1 oz certificates that the tax man will accept in lieu of actual ounces. If the present value of all the government’s tax collections is 1000 oz, then the government can issue up to 1000 certificates without causing inflation. But if it issued 2000 of those certificates, against only 1000 oz of taxes receivable, then 1 certificate=0.5 oz.
    Majromax:
    If the central bank pegs a 2% inflation target, (pegged against a basket with specified amounts of various goods), then the money is tied to goods.

  36. Majromax's avatar

    With any intrinsically worthless medium of exchange there are always two equilibria:
    I can count three; your first example has the potential for two equilibria.
    1. if its price is positive, it may be demanded as a medium of exchange, and at some price demand = supply (as long as supply is limited).
    That’s assuming that the curves have only one intersection. I’m not sure that this is true with a currency like bitcoin. Since part of a currency’s value comes from transactional utility, simply having more effective transactions denominated in that currency has a positive feedback effect on value.
    That can only have a positive effect on price, however, if the currency has a positive marginal transaction utility over alternatives.
    At this low-price equilibrium, the currency still has a fundamental value: the low possibility it will come into fashion again. It will trade like the stock of a bankrupt company, and everyone holding it will be making the same fundamental assumption. (The first documented bitcoin transaction was an early-adopter in 2010 purchasing a pizza for 10,000BTC.)
    At some point, the currency’s transactional value will — for some people — exceed the transactional value of other currencies. This has so far been true amongst the more politically active users of bitcoin and those who are using the currency to evade capital controls. Under those circumstances, the currency in motion has additional value in trade, and then the traditional network effect starts to take over.
    I think that most fiat currencies don’t have to worry about the first equilibrium, because a credibly-acting government gives the currency a nontrivial intrinsic value, even if it’s in the form of “don’t get sent to jail for nonpayment of taxes.” Bitcoin doesn’t have that governmental backing, and so it runs the risk of switching between regimes.

  37. Patrick's avatar

    I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments, so I apologize if this is a repeat …
    It seems to me that the major problem with bitcoin is the built in deflation. In my amateur opinion, that’s what makes it unworkable. Especially if people start to consider it a store of value as well as a medium of exchange. The supply constraint and hoarding will cause a recession/depression and Nick will be screaming “I told you so!”
    Now if some clever person figures out a way to automatically make sure that the supply of some future electronic crytocash system is perfectly balanced to achieve e.g. 4% NGDP growth, then we might be on to something. Until then, meh. It’s vaguely interesting from a technical point of view but that’s about it.

  38. Vaidas's avatar

    Nick:
    ” The two currencies are identical in every respect, except one is backed by assets and the other isn’t.”
    Is the second currency a pure bubble asset, or is it fairly valued and backed by the present value of future payment services provided? My guess is that bitcoin today is a mix of the two. I guess that sometime ago bitcoin was fairly valued and it was completely backed by the discounted value of future payment services.
    “2. The issuer of the backed coin could use the returns on those assets to pay interest on the coins. Or to buy back coins so the owners of the coins would see capital gains. Other things equal, people prefer an asset that pays a higher rate of return to one that pays a lower rate of return.”
    Other things equal is the tricky part here. Other things equal should not include the price of the coin. Is expensive backedcoin better than a cheap unbackedcoin? We have no idea. Historically, when people wanted exposure to bubble assets, they bought them pure without any stabilizing add-ons.
    If you have an unbackedcoin, you can create a substitute backedcoin yourself at home by putting an unbackedcoin and a treasury bill into an envelope – you can pay yourself interest. Is there any benefit of doing this combination on the level of the coin? We have no idea.

  39. Vaidas's avatar

    Nick:
    “The issuer of the backed coin could use those assets to help stabilise the value of the coins in response to fluctuations in demand. If demand falls, the issuer could use the assets to buy back some of the coins in circulation. If demand rises, the issuer could sell more coins in exchange for more assets.”
    There are two types of stabilization, and it is unclear which you have in mind.
    1. The first type is concerned with the arbitrage between the markets for the coin and the underlying assets. The benefits of this type of stabilization are limited. Closed end funds work reasonably well. Bitcoin is like a closed end fund.
    2. The second type uses two tranches of liabilities, one is safer and more liquid, the second is riskier and less liquid. Central banks and commercial banks are good examples. But this type of stabilization has got nothing to do with backing. We could imagine TrancheCoin with two classes of coins, one tranche safer and more liquid, the other tranche riskier and less liquid. TrancheCoin would enjoy the benefits of this type of stabilization.

  40. jt's avatar

    Isn’t liquidity, moneyness premium/”temporary store of value”/stability the prime concerns? It’s probably true that BackedCoin will win on these features (for the reasons you mention), especially, the competition/replication/counterfeiting issue. Even for cash counterfeiting is an issue (for example in some small stores they won’t accept cash denominations more than $20; they prefer credit cards or debit).

  41. Min's avatar

    Suppose that we had money backed by land, called Thalers (pronounced TAHLERS). Since “Thal” means “valley” in German, that’s not a bad name. 🙂
    Perhaps one problem with it as a medium of exchange is that if thalers are used to buy land from the issuer of currency, then those thalers should be retired. That’s pretty crappy monetary policy, isn’t it?

  42. Lord's avatar

    Preferred medium of speculation, followed by preferred medium of collectors? I hear Confederate money is quite collectible.

  43. JP Koning's avatar

    Thanks Nick.
    “Why does a currency need to be backed by an object of value and why does that linking prevent fluctuation in demand for the currency?”
    Ian, I don’t have much time, but the comment below covers my thoughts on the gold vs bitcoin comparison:
    http://jpkoning.blogspot.ca/2013/12/tales-from-litecoin-universe.html?showComment=1388165024432#c4580164208435040691

  44. Peter T's avatar

    Comments above have it right I think. What’s an “asset” in this context? A government’s main “asset” is the power to tax (or redistribute property, or acquire property). While all these have limits, they are essentially political rather than related to any notion of what the government “owns”. But do we need to theorise when there is ample history to look at? For the first 2000 years of money there was no coin, just a unit of account. And any token, public or private, was backed by the ability of the issuer to exchange it for some tangible good. What was the proof of that ability? Continued exchange. Likewise, metallic coins are not goods in themselves, just tokens. They were used on a par with other tokens, and their value derived from their use in exchange, not from the ability to use them to pay taxes (which until early modern times in Europe were mostly collected in kind). It might help to think of two companies issuing commercial paper. One has a small asset base, but a high cash flow, and regularly redeems its paper and re-issues it without difficulty. The other has a low or irregular cash flow, but a large asset base. It sometimes misses a payment or delays redemption. Which one would command a premium? Which would be most acceptable as collateral?

  45. Ralph Musgrave's avatar

    Nick,
    Thanks for saying “bingo”, but I’m not 100% sure I’m right: I’m just thinking aloud.
    You claim that a bank must “use the returns on their assets to do those things..” else it loses out to the competition. As I understand you, you’re saying that where a bank has a big pile of income yielding assets, and uses that income to subsidise its customers, the bank will beat the competition. My answer is: “sure, but that’s cross subsidisation”. A garage or restaurant owner could do the same: i.e. subsidise their business out of income from assets that are not relevant to or necessary for running the garage or restaurant.

  46. Ian Lippert's avatar
    Ian Lippert · · Reply

    Majromax,

    At a basic level, the power to enact laws and collect taxes. Beyond that, they develop and justify reputations as competent managers, so that their claims about future outcomes are respected.
    This is just question begging. The credibility of laws and the government that enforces them are one and the same. If people lose faith in their government then they lose faith in the laws (including laws of taxation) and those laws cannot be enforced anymore. The government has no “intrinsic value” (by your definition) because it’s not backed by anything other than faith in its value and therefore the currency it backs has no intrinsic value either.
    Institutions not having intrinsic value is not really a problem for their long term use and viability. I think the term intrinsic value leads to a lot of confusion because the word intrinsic means “in and of itself” but your use it in terms of “in and of something else” and people often move between the two definitions of the word without realizing it.
    In the meantime, all of that “bitcoin infrastructure” — while potentially extremely useful for bitcoin transactions — can be easily switched to any other similar currency, including a clone of bitcoin.
    When I speak of bitcoin I am just broadly speaking of crypto currencies in general. I do not really care if it’s bitcoin or lite coin or dodge coins that eventually win this early race to adoption. At some point an equilibrium will be found and we will have the Facebook of bit coins. It’s fiat versus crypto currency not bitcoin specifically. Sorry for the confusion.
    I’d be more inclined to believe your point here if bitcoin was actually effective as an instrument of savings. It isn’t; over the past year alone the currency has suffered from several 50% peak to trough drops. Regardless of your opinions on the long-term value of bitcoins, this makes it a lousy instrument for currency-type savings: I wouldn’t want to put the cash for next week’s groceries in bitcoin.
    You previous comment was retrieved from the spam filter and your summary only referred to bitcoins drop which I found a little confusing.
    Yes, for bitcoin to be accepted its volatility will have to come down drastically. But it’s current volatility is due entirely to its rapid adoption. Rapid adoption leads to fast run ups, fast run ups lead to excessive speculation, excessive speculation lead to crashes. At some point if bitcoin is widely accepted we won’t see large price increases and speculation will mostly be curbed.
    The point is that even after china banned bitcoins the price did not crash to below its previous high of the last crash suggesting that it’s not all speculative value. It is still on an upward trajectory. If you are saving in bitcoins for the long term eventually the increase in the value of your bitcoins is greater than the volatility and therefore cashing out at any point (peak to trough) is more valuable than cashing out in fear of volatility.
    Without putting words into Nick’s mouth, “savers” are indistinguishable from “creditors.” Without putting words into your mouth, it seems an inherent contradiction of the entire bitcoin community is that it is highly skeptical of the creditors of the modern economy (namely financial institutions) while being highly protective of their own financial assets.
    Why is this a contradiction? They are skeptical of modern creditors so they have found a competitor. Is that competitor actually more trust worthy than the modern financial industry? Thats what we are going to find out, we are performing the largest monetary experiment in history. Bit coiners could be completely wrong but that does not mean their actions before the experiment has run its course are contradictory
    That will work if and only if monetary policy can be reduced to a simple formula regarding the quantity of base money, in the absence of trading costs. The lessons of the last eighty or so years of economics suggest that it really isn’t that simple.
    I don’t really understand. If governments and bitcoin are both based on the same kind of faith the people’s faith in government currency could easily shift to bitcoin.
    I think you’re also wrong about “no one is saying the bitcoin of today is the optimal cryptocurrency” — that’s implicitly stated by anybody holding a long position. If bitcoin isn’t the optimal cryptocurrency, then its long term value is $0 (plus a curiosity premium, I suppose) as everybody trades in OptimalCoin instead.
    Not optimal in the present but optimal in the long run. Bitcoin has been around for a ridiculously short amount of time, especially if you consider that it only really caught on in the mainstream in 2012. Does anyone think that the bitcoin of today (price, infrastructure, acceptance) is at an equilibrium? The answer is no. Bitcoin supporters think that acceptance will only increase.
    While bitcoins long term value might be zero, I do not believe that the long term value of all crypto currencies to be zero. Like I said, I don’t really care if it’s still bitcoin or not in 10 years.

  47. Ian Lippert's avatar
    Ian Lippert · · Reply

    JPK

    Ian, I don’t have much time, but the comment below covers my thoughts on the gold vs bitcoin comparison:
    The fact that gold could lose 90% of its value instead of 100% doesn’t really change the nature of the criticism. And that criticism of bitcoins applies to fiat currencies as much as it does to crypto currencies. If people lose faith in the European Union, the value of the Euro will drop to zero. Should people trade in Euros and not bitcoins? Well I’d be more scared of saving in Euros than in bitcoins for the long run but that does not mean Euros are not viable in the short run for small transactions.

  48. Nick Rowe's avatar

    Vaidas: “There are two types of stabilization, and it is unclear which you have in mind.”
    Neither of those two types.
    I am talking about simple Open Market Operations. The issuer of BackedCoin is just like a regular central bank, that has some monetary policy target, like a price level or inflation target. If it sees the value of BackedCoin dropping below the target, it does an open market sale of assets, buying its own coins, to reduce the stock in circulation. If it sees the value of BackedCoin rising above target, it does an open market purchase of assets, selling its own coins, to increase the stock in circulation.

  49. Vaidas's avatar

    Nick, that is a second type – central banks have two classes of liabilities – monetary base and equity which usually is owned by Treasury. The profits or losses of OMOs go to the owners of equity. It is possible to replicate this with UnbackedCoins by changing the distribution of the bubble asset plus intangibles between two classes of coins.

  50. Vaidas's avatar

    Nick, consider UnbackedCoin with two classes of coins – EquityCoins (EC) and LiquidCoins (LC). ECs pays dividends in LCs. LCs pay interest on reserves in LCs. By changing IOR and dividend rates, UnbackedCoin can replicate OMOs.

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